icks13

Yep but in the end that method or destination charges it’s still a pain, ’cause starting a business, being responsible for all the problems when with direct charge let you free from them..

Yes, WC is using direct charge, but I would not say that destination charge is wrong applied to a Standard account even if not recommended in Stripe doc. It’s still an option for Standard, fact is that nobody would chose to Destination without also have the benefit of the Custom account (aka the old managed account), makes no sense.

I do not believe that WC Vendor plugin makes instant payments, not everywhere at least:)

WC Vendor Stripe plugin, will instantly transfer the Vendor money at the purchase moment, because the pay flow move all the charge to the Vendor, and then move back the admin commission to the Stripe account, but that money will only be available on the Vendor Stripe Account Balance. Which means, if the Vendors is in NZ or EU, 4 days and 7 days for the payout.

The instant payout, customer charge and the money directly go on the bank account of the Vendor, however such instant payouts, can be performed only during weekends and holidays and only in US.
Also, this system if nothing changed since its implementation in the end of 2016, was paired with custom accounts ad it comes with a fee of +1.5% per transaction when you go for them.

I believe that the old “pay and get” it’s dead due the new banking regulations against money laundering.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by icks13.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by icks13.

Man, for now would be great if just in case out of the blue WCMP would think: “Oh yeah, sure this is my plugin, let me inform people that a Standard Account is mandatory and that as charge flow we use xxx”

Btw, see that if they are using “Separate Charges and Transfers” you and all the others outside US and EU are heavily limited.

Right now there’s not THE SOLUTION, all of these multi vendor plugins are limited without specify such limitation, except some rare case. All of them are built on top of WooCommerce which works great with a US tax system but can not work well or at all with other markets.

In terms of Payment Gateways, WCMP was great ’cause it was coming with two solutions, PP and Stripe, while Pvendors has only PP and Yith too.
But after the deprecation of PP, let’s say that it’s almost like to say that WCMP in terms of gateway it’s not really sleeping well.

I’ve sent a message to WC Vendor, in their repository they’ve been enough nice to inform that PayPal has been deprecated and I’ve read they are working on Subscriptions, which is great since it’s a growing business model that deserve to be explored.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by icks13.

The limitation it’s not in Stripe Connect, simply:

1. WCMP has been totally absent in clarify what kind of approached they choose to set up the API
2. There’s no documentation provided by WCMP
3. They have choose the worst solution and not recommended by Stripe.

Stripe offers three accounts, Standard, Express and Custom, once you have choose one you can’t change. These accounts comes with benefits and legal responsibilities, so obviously you want to know if this plug will works with all these accounts, which actually should not works, cause Standard account use OAuth integration and Custom uses API.

Stripe provide three different type of Charge Flow: Direct Charge, Destination Charge and Separate Charges and Transfers.
These are not just fancy names and everyone who would use this plugin would like to know what kind of Charge Flow WCMP has choose for this plugin. This, because there are important legal aspects that affect the Admin of the marketplace and his vendors too.

What everybody expected to see from this plugin was the usual simply charge flow, where the customer’s money goes to the Vendor, minus transaction fees, taxes and commissions, or with our commissions, and then the commissions are sent back, like if the Vendor was paying us, which actually is true, ’cause we provide a service and so has seen in US, CA and EU, just look at Etsy.

Stripe in fact for a Standard Account recommend to use Direct Charge which works right in this way.
Easy peasy.

Since has been the same WCMP that told me to contact Stripe, I’ve been forced to bag Stripe Germany and then Stripe US to help me in understand how WCMP had set up their own plugin, embarrassing.

Stripe Germany didn’t have much interest in check my API calls since it’s not their duty, lucky me I’ve found in Stripe US an help.

So the only thing I got, is that WCMP has set up Destination Charges, or maybe even Separate Charges and Transfers, unfortunately I couldn’t push to get more.

The shitty part is that with both, the marketplace Admin get all the responsibilities of a Custom account without benefits.
In substance, thanks to this choice, the Admin become responsible for Chargebacks, Frauds, Refunds and Disputes (yeah) all things that a Standard account paired with Direct Charge flow do not have.

Not only, now the Admin must also pays the transactions fees, transactions fees that in more than one country are different between local and international cards, so basically getting inside WCMP UI to add the Stripe fees to the marketplace fees in order to compensate, will always bring to a loss by admin side unless you do not charge more then necessary and still I didn-t check if % can be paired with a number since there are also 0.30c per transaction.

The “Manual Payout vs Automatic” isn’t the right solution during the test mode. For example right now I’m in Manual Payout but still I can’t transfers the money to the vendor.
Here I have a waiting time of 7 days against 4 in NZ and 2 in US.
So the best solution is proceed with a purchase using a credit card that will add funds in your Stripe balance: 4000000000000077.

Once you have added funds, you can keep selected hourly disbursement in WCMP and also keep a Payout Automatic or manually mark as paid directly in WCMP

This happen because the money that you are going to send are those one in your balance and not those one that are coming.

Which for this kind of Charge Flow make sense, because you are responsible for all the shit and so Stripe aspect to see you backed up with money in your balance, that btw will not matter so much, ’cause in case of chargeback or refund, if the balance is 0 or not enough, Stripe will take the money from your bank account. (remember with Direct Charge would been vendor responsibility)

Not nice if you are starting a business, ’cause if you can face this Charge Flow model, probably you also do not use a free plugin…

PayPal it’s not a solution and has never been one since at least 2 years. When you ask for MassPay or Adaptive Payments, they want to know if you make at least $xxk if not, they will not allow you to use those solutions.
Moreover MassPay has been deprecated in December 1st, 2017 just check online, you will also see people complaining that they woke up without have anymore the chance to use MassPay, while Adaptive Payments is under invitation and with the usual revenues as rule.

PP has never been the solution for a marketplace, since years, there are other payment gateways, better and cheaper but no willing to create a plugin.

PS: If turns out that this is “Separate Charges and Transfers” do not use the withdrawal function ’cause the guy in Stripe US told me that it’s not supposed to work in that way with such kind of charge flow.

PS2: Apparently in terms of Stripe Connect plugin, WC Vendor Pro comes with a Stripe Connect plugin that use Direct Charge paired with a Standard Account as should be.

The original button of my theme was fine and still it is, I meant the “Pay Pal Checkout Button” the yellow-blue punch in da face.

But, after tons of debugging and high proof quality code work, I’ve solved going in WC/Settings/Checkout/PP Express Checkout and at this point I don’t remember anymore sorry… I’ve just unchecked one of the two “show” checkboxes and the PayPal button puff! gone, it was not anymore in the “view” cart page, now again I’ve just the theme button ??

Hello, thank you for your reply.

If you want I can help you about how it works with VAT, ’cause if you solve it, would be the first marketplace plugin that can really works for cross border sales and digital sales in EU, all the the other doesn’t works.

—-Physical Marketplace—–

– Admin based in Europe (ie France) with a physical marketplace of only national vendors (all from France).

This is the easy way, items price can be written without include VAT and then calculate VAT based on Admin shop address.
However if the admin decide to sell outside of the European economic area, ie customers from USA, then VAT can not be applied.

– Admin based in Europe (ie France) with a physical marketplace of different European vendors (ie from France, Germany, Spain etc).

This is the hard way, VAT on each product must be applied adding the VAT of the country vendor the product belongs. So, some product will have 20%, some other product 19% and so on.
However if the admin decide to sell outside of the European economic area, ie customers from USA, then VAT can not be applied. So probably the best solution here, would be simply forbid sales outside of EU.

– Admin based in USA with a physical marketplace of worldwide vendors.

It’s just insane, give up. Also strategically it’s a no sense, whatever is, digital or physical, the biggest markets are always the same US, EU, China, Japan. So if someone is lucky to live in these area, make no sense go outside.

Admin fees in European physical marketplace, with national European vendors, and international European vendors.

– Registered Business Vendors

Easy solution. If during the registration Vendors have provided their VAT number, what the admin of the marketplace keep as fee/commission from the sales, will not be charged with VAT.
Marketplace is seen as a digital service provided to a vendor, which means that it works in this way:

Vendor sell €20 + VAT 17%
Vendors own to the admin €5 for that sales
The admin virtually says: “Give me €5 for the service that you have just used”

Being the admin a registered business and the Vendor too, that €5 will not be VAT charged. Will be applied the reverse charge mechanism. However the marketplace need to be able to provide an invoice to the Vendor, in such invoice must be indicate the reverse charge mechanism and other details according to the law.

– Non registered Business Vendors

Vendors need to charge VAT on the money that they take from vendor sales.

Cross-border sales within Europe Union are yearly limited.

Vendors must keep track of their online sales per each EU country in which they sales. When they reach the threshold for that country, they must stop to sell in that country and register a VAT number in that country.
If the admin of the marketplace is responsible to keep under control such threshold, is controversial. I’ve worked many times for marketplace businesses and usually the general statement of the company was “it’s not our business control that our partner follow the rules” however, this, like other similar statements “I just provide the service” has fallen in the last 2 years due the new application against money laundering.

—-Digital Marketplace—–

– Admin based in Europe with a digital marketplace and vendors based in the admin country or outside the admin country but sill in Europe

This that could seems to be the easiest way to start a marketplace, it’s a big no also for the users of your competitors.
Admin must applied not anymore the VAT of the vendor, but the VAT of the customer. Which is not enough, ’cause this VAT can not be simply assumed by a virtual delivery address or the address provided by the customer during the registration process.
EU provide a checklist that the admin must follow in order to identify the customer, not only, he has to store such data for x years, I say x ’cause is recently changed or is going to change next year.

In order to do so, the admin need to register in a European country via MOSS. He will remit the VAT collected to this country for all the countries he has collected the customer VAT.

-MOSS plugins-
WooCommerce as eCommerce, already have plugin that provide a registration with MOSS.
Blueantoniette is the only one that currently provide a plugin that works in this way for marketplace addons, however the price is just insane $2380 per year.
If you are a profitable business, you have your own customization, if you are a startup, you go on upwork/people per hour and probably you would solve the problem for less money.

– Registered Business Vendors and not registered business vendors –

Follow the same above rules of a physical marketplace included the VAT application on fees/commissions

– Admin based outside of Europe with a digital marketplace and vendors based in Europe

As above. An admin based in USA that own a digital marketplace, (ie Music) with musicians based in Europe, he has to collect the VAT and register to MOSS in order to remit it.

Important notes

– So far it applies also to UK, unless until I think March 2018 when the Brexit will be effective.

– MOSS was conceived to work for both, digital and physical goods, rumors has it that in 2018 is going to include also physical goods, which means that, without a core function included in WC Vendor but also the other marketplace plugins, that hook up with MOSS, or without a specific extension, physical marketplaces as addons for WooCommerce, will be wiped out.

– Invoicing is underestimated. While in EU there’s no obligation for an electronic invoice, so the typical email with the summary order is fine, if the client ask for it, vendor must provide the invoice.
The electronic invoice becomes mandatory when it’s about the VAT that the admin applies on fees/commission and must be precise, in fact, forget to indicate VAT, to remit VAT or make a mistake in the invoice, lead to penalties and under some circumstance, to jail, depending by the EU country law.

I hope this may help you for the best with your TaxJar plugin!

Cheers!

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by icks13.