Why using Kubrick on 1.3 is a mistake

I’m with 2faragon here…
christ, you people need to calm down.
1.3 hasn’t even been released yet so who knows what Matt will do?
do you really think he’s going to leave it so you are required to use photoshop to edit the template? have some faith in Matt, he’s not going to leave it like that.
Michael even acknowledges on his blog:
“Now, I say ‘variation’, because some of the things that I do in Kubrick are entirely dependent on the server being setup just right (this is why there are so many problems with .htaccess for instance. So what Matt is doing, is cutting down on some of those things where needed. But quite honestly, I’m not sure exactly how much or how little will make it into the final thing, so now you know what I know.”
so, stop spazzing out and just wait until 1.3 comes out.

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

goodsnake: i just opened the Kubrick photoshop file in a famous open-source program called Gimp that cost me exactly $0.00. I can see and edit all the different layers just fine.
Having said that, I agree that if there is only one default template, then it should be one with no graphics, because, as you rightly say (IMO), it discourages customisation. I also agree that Gemini and Trident are better in this regard.
Whatever the default will be in 1.3, the CSS should be full – I mean FULL – of comments explaining what each bit of CSS does. Especially the bits dealing with positioning/float/clear that people are having so much trouble with. I believe this will really help noobs like myself customise their look. And forget about the extra ~1K file size, people can always take the comments out when they’re done with the customisation.

moose, ??
Seriously though, IMO the “just wait and see what happens” attitude belongs to the world of closed-source software (and dictatorships, and stuff I just don’t care about). There seems to be a consensus that the default template needs to change, brilliant, now let’s discuss what we want for WP1.3. And let’s not just pick one of the first 2 or 3 existing templates that come to mind, let’s start with defining the objectives and then derive a solution from those.
Here’s what I think the objectives should be, in decreasing order of importance:
– not inherently borked like the current index.php
– displays the same in all browsers
– easy to customise
– well documented to help with customisation (see my last post)
– pretty

Wow. I wasn’t going to add my 2cents worth, but now that I have stopped laughing so hard, I can.
Does it really matter that much what template ships with WordPress? I know I don’t give a flying fork what the default template looks like (no offence to Matt or the devs) because I know I’m only going to look at it long enough to figure out what changes I need to make to my current template, and then I toss the default template right out.
For as long as I have been using WP, people have been asking for a new default template. Well, you know what? You got what you asked for.
Secondly, Matt isn’t stupid, I have every confidence in him that he’s going to make it as easy as possible for the graphicaly challenged, like myself.
@zadu:
– not inherently borked like the current index.php – I agree
– displays the same in all browsers – A big deal for a lot of people.
– easy to customise – I think this goes with out saying.
– well documented to help with customisation (see my last post) Maybe not so in the CSS itself, but rather a link to the online version with comments. FYI: adding comments like that to the CSS will affect d/l time of the CSS file. While negligible, with some of the plugins may of us have, we can use all the speed we can get.
– pretty – I have mixed feelings aobut this…. While it would be good for someone jsut starting out, I’d hate to see the Bloggerization of WP, where it seems like 1 in 4 sites have the same template, because it looked good enough and they jsut left it.
TG

Whoa people, calm down.
First of all, I am quite interested in hearing your opinions. There are some good points, but you sure do come on hard over something that you hardly know any details about.
Currently this is in Matt’s lap, so he’s calling the shots. I’ve offered my assistance in whatever form he may want it.
As for Gemini and Trident, I hadn’t heard of them before just now, and having looked them over I’m sorry to say that I’m not particularly impressed. [flame removed.] Obviously I’m biased, but that’s where I stand anyway.
As for ‘every blog will look the same!’, that’s really no different than the way things are looking now. Except perhaps that the current style is scaring people away ??
As Zadu says, Photoshop isn’t needed to edit the image file, and if I can get away with it, I’ll of course also try and get the template file out in other formats.
Plugins, ‘proprietary code’ and such shenanigans are of course not going to be included, which is why I talked to Matt about retaining Kubrick as a separate template as well, for those interested in the full solution. And right now, nobody knows how much or how little is going to make it into the WordPress 1.3 distrib.
I have and continue to put a lot of time into Kubrick as well as the furthering of WordPress. I wish only the best for it.
So be patient and civil. And cheer up a little, we’re in this.

so we should not include a good looking template because that will make all the WP users to stick with it?
Hmm… Now I know why none of WP installations use the default theme… coz general idea is that its too yucky. ?? and that was intentional on Matt’s part!

Well I do not think we want to get into comparing what is on the one hand no more than a simple and unstyled adaption of index php and what is on the other a fully themed offering. It is not comparing like with like.

I agree. Everyone needs to calm down. Surely Matt will not be so stupid as to force everyone to download pirated copies of Photoshop from Kazaa.

Well I certainly hope not ??

“Does it really matter that much what template ships with WordPress?”
TG- This is not getting at you at all.
It matters A LOT.

1. It matters because it is the forum helpers here who have to pick over the css for other people who have broken it. These are the questions that take the longest to answer.
2. It matters because unless this is incredibly well handled, the forums will flood with people wanting help, and it’s only the forum helpers who respond to that. Note ‘forum helpers’ there ….
3. It matters because 1.3 will potentially be more widely adopted than 1.2 so the potential calls for help will be larger.
4. It matters because any such change and it’s impact should not be judged by people who can do CSS, but by people who cannot and need help.
5. It matters because no matter who shiny or wonderful any CSS looks, the very first thing that people will do is try to individualise their blog.
6. It matters because 1.3 may have had a pile of nightlies, and benefited from that, but this could potentially just be let loose with no backup from those responsible for the change.

[anonymous flame from 62.137.39.40 removed.]

zadu, Design by a committee is bad, design by a community – well that’s impossible ??
Please take this in the right spirit. There is only one dictatorship at work here, and we all report to the Great Northern Moose. He says the sky is falling, so drop your stylesheets and get grab some sheets of tarpaulin.
Any questions?
Alright, so we all had fun speculating, but let’s remember that that’s all this is.
Podz, your concerns are valid. One reason I don’t respond to stylesheet related questions is because of the effort it takes to find what’s going wrong, and where.

Anonymous: I wasn’t throwing snide remarks, I was merely saying what I would say on any day of the week, regardless of whether Kubrick had existed or no.

fargon – more than 50% of posts here concern CSS.
It’s impact must not be underestimated at all.
We have had the current default template for months. Craig wrote one guide. I wrote another. The stats for my site show nearly 14,000 unique hits, and the tracker shows a repeat rate of 3. So that’s a pretty big number, yet STILL we get questions here.