• Resolved kaj69

    (@kaj69)


    Hi sybre,

    Yoast (and others) do often emphasize the importance of “long tail keywords” and Yoast has a dedicated field for keywords. Aren’t these used at all in SEO Framework or…?

    (Sorry for posting my question first in wrong section, “SEO Data Transporter”, unable to delete the erronous post).

    Brgds,
    Kaj

Viewing 7 replies - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
  • I’m sure @cybr will have a more eloquent answer.. but the “keyword” and “corner stone” features of Yoast are one of the features I find rather frivolous.

    Competing for Longtail keywords is important but not more important that a quality post.

    Simply put all posts can “compete” for long tail SERPS. There isn’t anything in Yoast’s feature set, that allows their users to be more competitive in earning a more prominent spot in a particular SERP.

    The inclusion of such a feature or the lack of such a feature has no impact on what search pages your post will appear on. What matters is the content.

    Such features can also be misleading. In part because Google wants folks to make the highest quality content and sometimes the optimizations (and suggestions) that a keyword tool within a SEO plugin may lower the quality (or have no impact on it). I think the biggest risk is encouraging folks to reuse the same words and phrases within a post in a way that is less than natural.

    It is also frivolous because if you wish to follow such advise, you can do so without that tool.

    If you like their advise just follow it. Indeed you don’t need any SEO plugin to follow that particular recommendation. The tool you mention (IMHO) is just “human engineering” — that is modifying your own (user) behavior. The tool doesn’t access, or impact anything within Google or other search tools like Bing.

    I find such features little more than bloat-ware and I’m happy that such tools are not featured in TSF. Of course your experience may be different.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by harryshawk.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by harryshawk.
    Plugin Author Sybre Waaijer

    (@cybr)

    Hello ??

    @harryshawk I do not have a more eloquent answer, yours was spot on!

    To add onto Harry’s comments:
    You require a focus subject rather than a long-tail keyword, and this is impossible to write a program for as I do not have access to Google’s code.

    Google is super-secretive about its implementation, even to its own employees. Do not forget there’s also a life-destructive NDA to be signed and followed.
    So, whatever you find on recommendations outside of Google is based on trial and error, and even more so luck. Google generally does not give out how they work, aside from their verbose guidelines page.

    The best we can do is guess. Writing such a tool takes years; let alone implementing multilingual support. Such a tool does not exist.
    One major setback in such a tool is that Google pushes hundreds of changes every year, most of them are not announced to the public. So to keep it updated, it requires even more trial and error (and luck), and therefore it’s permanently outdated. Basically, such a tool cannot exist without direct cooperation from Google.

    Tools that seem to give such insights should only be listened to with great skepticism.

    Please view my reply here (point 2.) for more information regarding this subject.

    An important note from Google’s documentation:

    “Keyword stuffing” refers to the practice of loading a webpage with keywords or numbers in an attempt to manipulate a site’s ranking in Google search results. Often these keywords appear in a list or group, or out of context (not as natural prose). Filling pages with keywords or numbers results in a negative user experience, and can harm your site’s ranking. Focus on creating useful, information-rich content that uses keywords appropriately and in context.

    Aside from the SEO Bar, there are plans…
    But, not as you currently have in mind. In fact, it’s much more verbose; and keywords are still out of the picture.

    The planned reviews check how well your site performs. This is in regards to structure, feature set, and code quality.

    See issue 108 for more information.

    Thread Starter kaj69

    (@kaj69)

    @harryshawk and @cybre – Thank you VERY much for the information!

    I was in the belief that focus keywords was the #2 issue to focus upon (after the content quality) and spent quite a lot of time upon this but realizes now that it’s not. You’ve pushed me into another path of thinking for which I’m very grateful.

    Once again, thank you very much ??

    Kaj

    Also, Google and other search engines can’t see your “focus keyword”, only you ??

    Plugin Author Sybre Waaijer

    (@cybr)

    No problem! ??

    I did forgot something important to mention:
    You do require focus pages, that focus around a subject.
    So, if you sell apples and bananas, make a separate page for each. Including a landing page that tells people where you sell both of them.

    In conclusion, that subject will therefore organically create keywords for you as you naturally write.

    So, in a sense, “focus keywords” are important, but shouldn’t be taken literally and can just as well be defined in your page’s title. They will, when you write quality content, flow naturally into the context. A tool that stimulates can ultimately be counter-effective unless you know how to game the tool…

    For example, you want to write about the famous Pink Lady apple:
    > Title: “Why Pink Lady apples are the best · Example.com”
    > Description: “Also known as Cripps Pink, the Pink Lady apple is firm, juicy and sweet. But, there’s much more…”
    > Picture: A picture of the apples on trees.
    > Context: Simply write about that apple… The focus keywords “Apple” and “Pink Lady” will flow naturally ??

    As you can see, the focus keywords “Pink Lady”, “apple”, “sweet apple”, “juicy apple”, “apple trees” etc. will all have been embedded in the subject and therefore context, organically.

    What matters next is the layout of your website.

    i.e. Bounce rate:
    > Is it attractive?
    > Do the colors want to make you eat that apple?
    > Is there a map displayed of where to buy such an apple?
    > Is your website secure, fast, and does it have some backlinks?

    i.e. Local ranking:
    > Is your business registered?
    > Is the person looking for such an apple nearby your store location(s)?

    i.e. many more ranking factors…

    In conclusion, the focus subject is important, but you shouldn’t need a premium tool as much as went to a few writing classes in middle school.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Sybre Waaijer.

    @kaj69

    I think for me (after quality content) the most important point is that an article should resonate with (e.g., appeal to) the audience that you really most want.. and it should rank on SERPs based on the searches that audience makes. In particular it should rank for the specific searches you want.

    Allow me to explain in some detail…

    Keywords are important… but ultimately there isn’t a way to determine how many to use, or how often to use them; the reason for this uncertainty as @cybr has suggested in Google secret algorithms and because the standard of “quality content” is subjective.

    Imagine that in a medical or science post aimed at domain experts, dense keywords might a hallmark of quality, but might not in a post about apples or beach balls.

    Which brings up a rather critical point. Like any writing, knowing your audience is critical. Skipping over the issues of writing when you are a new company that doesn’t (yet) know it’s audience — there is a lot that can be done with the writing to attract YOUR audience.

    HubSpot has a lot to say on this (link). But basically long tail search by itself is nearly meaningless, until we think about who we wish to reach.

    Your posts should be found by people who are searching… but which people? which types of searches?

    The general process is to know (define) who you want to reach (your audience) through introspection, interviews, data capture, etc. determine the unique buyer journey your audience will take, and then (with that in mind) understand the various times and methods they will use to search.

    That is to say, if there a unique way of searching that will be largely isolated to your audience and be indicative the progress on their journey — that might be a good place to focus esp. if your company has good conversions related to that point on the journey.

    By journey I mean are they just starting to research? or have they narrowed their research? Are they still considering a purchase or have they decided to purchase and are now just picking who they will buy from? Or have they decided which brand to buy, and maybe even where to buy it, and just need to pick out the configuration or features, etc; e.g., pick a particular model.

    A search on “What are the best cars in 2017” might indicate someone who is looking for a new car, but it might not. It might just be a car hobbyist.

    A search on “what are the best used cars from 2015” might be more indicative of an interest in buying a used car, but seems to indicate someone who is in the research/discovery phase.

    A search on “2012 Prius under 60,000 miles in the North New Jersey area” is a long tail search that would (for me) be indicative of someone who is looking to buy that a car that is ~5 years old with low millage. But also, that they are seriously interested in buying a used car. A person looking for a Prius would also indicate other factors like interest in ecological issues.

    A similar search “2012 Porsche or Cadillac under 60,000 miles” would suggest for me a very different persona/person, with very different buying criteria. Ranking for ”

    All of this is to suggest, that it is far less important to rank for a particular keyword or set of keywords, and more important to compete for SERPS where those searching are more likely to be aligned with your brand, or have an interest in your product and services.

    For example if your company sold or reconditioned Prius’s — you can research the various type of searches folks would make, while they are considering, and then selecting which car to buy. The right post / pages would attract those searches at the best point in the buyer journey to build a relationship with them.

    So while we can imagine that a company selling used Prius’s would want to rank for Prius as a keyword — it would be more important to rank for other keywords like rebuilt, certified pre-owned, etc., etc. Or geographic keywords, etc. They would also want to rank for pages focused on buying that particular car and the issues those buyers might face; for example, “How to tell if your used Prius has a bad battery.”

    I hope this is helpful.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by harryshawk.
    Thread Starter kaj69

    (@kaj69)

    @cybre and @harryshawk

    Thanks once again for your invaluable information, it has given me a completely different view of focus keywords. Previously I had the impression that the focus keyword field of Yoast alone was a dedicated, “secret key” for ranking high in SERPs, as a “type-and-forget”.

    Now I realize that focus keywords are still important but should be addressed in the content in a more naturally way.

Viewing 7 replies - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
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