• Hey all,
    In my very limited experience of WP and it’s people it seems a little bit hard for people to get involved in development. I’m not personally a php developer but I can see a lot of talented people on the boards producing “Hacks” and some really great css designs.
    I have a lot of experience with open source projects and have found forums to be great for user feedback and some idle contribution but you really can’t beat a development maling list as a way for people to contribute code and patches and generally get involved. Also a “Development” page on the site is invaluable to help people get started. Bugzilla is also great once a project starts to grow.
    With all of the great people in this community I’d hate to see the potential wasted. A lot of the “Hacks” on the site are really “features” waiting to be cleaned up and added and with a good templates system a lot of the css designers could contribute some really great templates for WP. Once WP gainst popularity, and it will, your gonna want some decent infrastructure so as not to miss out on the wave of potential contributers ??
    Excuse me if I’m waffling about what I don’t understand ??
    Later
    Mark

Viewing 5 replies - 16 through 20 (of 20 total)
  • Very touchy subject, this is…yes.
    Come back to this, we will…after release of 1.0
    May the Force with the dev team.
    Peace ??

    Ryan, I don’t disagree at all with your last post. I was just reacting to a perceived ‘tone’ in the comment I took issue with. “Let us devs have our own place to talk about the really important things while you hoi polloi play here amongst yourselves. Go on, now, shoo” or something like that. ?? But that is exactly the attitude I’ve found in at least one major OS project I’ve been involved with it, and it irks the living shit out of me. However, in this case I realize that I made incorrect assumptions, so I do apologize for that.
    On the one hand, I agree with the idea that a dev-list could make things more open. But, this is what I’m seeing right now on the docs list/wiki: very little participation by Matt or any of the other devs. This is not intended to be a j’accuse, just an objective statement of fact. (And again, I’m sure this has a lot to do with the push for the 1 January release of 1.0.) I think though, that this leads to a little frustration on the part of people trying to make docs contributions because there’s no true leadership going on there now. (Well, I won’t speak for everyone. *I* feel a little frustrated about that. :)) Hopefully that will change relatively soon, and I believe that it will.
    As far as what I know about the 1.0 release, no, I don’t have any special knowledge. However, I can generally tell someone what’s in 1.0 that’s not in the current .72 release simply by keeping up with the CVS. In addition, there’ve been posts made in the dev-blog (see 11, 15, 18 Dec entries), as well as a ‘future’ page in the About section of the site. So I think the information is there for people who really want to know. I understand your point about contributing code and patches and that the forums aren’t optimal for doing so (there’ve been innumerable complaints about how this forum software handles code, for one thing), and for that reason alone, a mail-list (or some other medium of exchange) would be desirable for those things.

    @ Ryan.
    Your points are well taken! Thanks for adding your perspective as it is as valuable as the next person. It’s all about making WP better, isn’t it?
    Craig.

    Indeed. I was very excited to find WP. It’s a great piece of work. Props go to sisob for his weblog entry syndicated on Planet Gnome that led me to WP. WP may soon have many developers who are currently using MT for lack of something better moving to WordPress and its GPL license. The license and the community matter a great deal to those of us who pour lots of our free time into open source projects.

    Just a few notes, which may or may not irk some people.
    On a development list: It exists. There is a private development list that I basically created initially as a way to archive the conversations between Mike Little and I regarding nascent WordPress development. It is basically comprised of active code contributors, which is a completely subjective judgement call I make. I’m inclined to keep it to just a couple of people on the “list” in the future as the signal to noise ratio is 1:0, and also it has been used in the past to address security issues before they were made public. It’s more a tool for communication amoung myself, Mike, Alex, and Dougal, and if it was any higher traffic than it is now I honestly probably wouldn’t be able to keep up with it, and would pipe it to a subfolder in my mail or something.
    However, I fully understand the benefits of a public, development-oriented list, however I would like to direct that traffic to the forums for several reasons. Here we have completely open (no registration), fast, XHTML-compliant forums with RSS feeds for every thread. It’s simple, and I think it’s great for discussion. In the past I have directed discussion type traffic no the “dev list” to the forums so everyone could participate, and I’ll keep this in mind in the future. However, these forums suck for code….
    On code contributions: I have mixed feelings about this. There have been some nice, simple, clean contributions in the past, and I am thankful for that. They have been from people here on the forums, people who understand WordPress, and people who appreciate clean code. However I have gotten many others from people who I doubt have even visited www.remarpro.com. Integrating them would, in my opinion, dilute WordPress significantly. If the feature itself is useful and it’s just a bad implementation in the past we have applied the patch and then cleaned it up, or something similar. Often, however, this takes as long or longer than if I had just gotten a feature request and implemented it from scratch. Sad, but true. I know Michel had this problem in the past with b2, but it was something I did not fully anticipate.
    I’ve always been proud that WP developers are from all over the world, from all different backgrounds, but there’s a single philosophy that ties us together: a commitment to clean, succint, useful code. We disagree about a lot of things, sometimes major things, but that user-centered focus of simplicity transcends that. At the bottom of every page it says “Code is poetry.” and that’s really how I feel. Every word should be chosen deliberately. Eliminate redundant redundancy. If you want code in the WP core, then make sure it’s as simple as possible, is XHTML 1.1 compliant, and follows the coding standards. It’s a leap for some people, but once you take it you won’t want to go back. These forums aren’t any good for posting code, but there’s nothing from stopping you from submitting it to our Sourceforge project, posting it on your own site and linking to it, or emailing it to me personally. If you want to influence the broader direction of WP, I would recommend these forums or the IRC channel. Both have changed my mind several times.
    A valid criticism may be that the project is “Matt-centric” or something like that. I would counter that we have 4 Mikes and only 1 Matt. Really, though, I have done my very best to make everything as open and transparent as possible, raise the bus factor to at least 4, and consider every serious viewpoint presented. If you think I could improve on this please drop me a private email.
    Another important point was brought up is there’s not a clear list of what needs to be done, or who’s working on what. Honestly at this very moment I’m doing most of the work simply because everyone else is busy with the holidays. However I am feeling a little overwhelmed, and it looks like one major feature I wanted in 1.0 isn’t going to happen. This is an easy problem to solve and I’ll post my personal 1.0 todo list in another thread and if anyone can help out, please speak up.
    I think that’s all, but I got here late in this thread so please excuse me if Imissed anything. Reading back over the earlier part of this post it seems a little harsh, so let me iterate one important point: no one has ever been turned away. If you want to contribute to the project, there’s someplace for you. I apologize if anyone has felt turned away in the past.

Viewing 5 replies - 16 through 20 (of 20 total)
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